Victor Crawford on 60 Minutes
Victor Crawford on 60 Minutes
On Sunday, March 19, 1995, the CBS-TV news show, "60 Minutes" featured ex-tobacco industry lobbyist, Victor Crawford. Mr. Crawford has had throat and lung cancer, and is now an anti-tobacco activist in his home state of Maryland--which at this moment is undergoing a monumental battle over implementation of the toughest anti-smoking legislation in the nation.
Leslie Stahl conducted the interview. Below are excerpts:
Stahl: You yourself said it wasn't addictive when you were smoking and knew it was addictive.
Crawford: True. It's not a crime 'cause I wasn't under oath. It wasn't perjury. And it was what I was been paid to do.
Crawford: Was I lying? Yes, yes. . . Yes, yes. . . Of course. My job was to win. . . Even if you're going out lying about a product that's gonna hurt kids. Your job is to win.
Stahl: So you took on a black hat. Why did you do it?
Crawford: Money, big money. The big money. Unfortunately the, uh, the other groups are not in the position to pay, to pay the big bucks, which is necessary to hire the best people.
. . . I could make a phone call and get the Speaker of the House of Delegates out of his bathtub at home to come to the phone.
. . . My job was to defeat legislation that was gonna hurt the industry. If I couldn't defeat it, then the job was to wound it to the point where it wouldn't fly.
. . . We were used to bringing scientists out of the woodwork and have this particular lab do this, and we'd have a poll polled by some cockamamie pollster saying this, that or the other.
. . . just to show him that the jury's still out, that you shouldn't take away anybody's civil rights until you're absolutely sure what you're doing. How can you be absolutely sure when this, this XYZ laboratory, world famous laboratory . . . Why is it world famous? Because I said it is and nobody's checked.
Stahl: I have to tell you, it's shameful.
Crawford: It happens. It happens every day. It happens every, in every legislature.
. . .
Stahl: And how do you arrange a pro-smoking rally?
Crawford: Well, the name of just about every smoker who's ever filled out a cigarette coupon or questionnaire goes right into some computer somewhere. . . In some cases, even brands they smoke. How they . . .
Stahl: Every smoker?
Crawford: Of course.
Stahl: Of course?
Crawford: They send out cards . . .
Stahl: People are going to be surprised to know that if they're a smoker, just because they're a smoker, their name's on some computer.
Crawford: Oh sure. How do you think, how do you think all of a sudden in twenty-four hours' notice I was able to turn out a big display, uh, smokers for equal rights waving signs? Where do you think that, all that information comes from?
Stahl: Well, how did, how did you get those people?
Crawford: Pick up a phone. Pick up a phone. Call down. Say, "Hey, I need a demonstration. You better get all the troops alerted." And next thing you know, most of 'em show up.
Stahl: [voiceover] But the demonstration against the proposed ban didn't work. So Crawford tried a new tactic. He denounced the ban's backers as "health Nazis," a term he coined.
Stahl: What did you mean when you first used it?
Crawford: I attacked the messenger on the grounds that they were trying to destroy civil liberties, that what they were trying to do was to put their values upon the general public, and try to impose it upon the working man who wants a glass of beer and a pack of cigarettes and destroy his freedom of choice.
Stahl: I've heard that argument myself.
Crawford: That's right. If you've got good people arguing for you, you can turn the issue away from the message. That's what I'm saying. Get them away from the focus because you can't defend it. . . Attack the messenger.
Stahl: You are describing the most cold-hearted, cynical, destructive set of values, I'm sorry, because these were your values.
Crawford: They were.
Stahl: And you're just telling it to us as if, sure . . .
Crawford: It's the American way.
. . .
Stahl: You don't smoke any more?
Crawford: Oh God, no. I still miss it.
Stahl: You still miss it?
Crawford: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Stahl: Come on.
Crawford: I can still remember how great it was in the morning with that cup of coffee and that cigarette. I mean, even now.
Stahl: You have a look of close to ecstasy on your face.
Crawford: If, if it wasn't for this cancer, I'd be smoking. I'm an addict. If you can, statistically if you can hook people like me in their teens, they always stay hooked.
. . .
60 Minutes then focused on the federal anti-tobacco actions of 1994, and the radically changed congressional situation now. It told of the new head of the committee which would regulate tobacco, Thomas A. Bliley (R-VA).
Bliley: There was uh, a uh, a kangaroo court type operation which the chairman brought em in and swore these executives in and treated them rather shabbily and uh, they testified and under oath that they uh, did not spike uh, their cigarettes. And they don't.
Stahl: Bliley, by the way, represents the Virginia district that includes the headquarters of Philip Morris, maker of Marlboro the world's best selling cigarette.
Bliley: As far as I'm concerned, uhhh, we have uh, enough laws on the books regulating the uh, sale of tobacco uhhhh, already.
Crawford: They have the chairman of the committee. Makes no bones - He's from Richmond - that, that he's financed by Philip Morris.
Stahl: Mr. Bliley?
Crawford: Yeah. He makes no bones about it.
Stahl: He makes no bones about it?
Crawford: No. He makes no bones about it. There's no question about it. And he says, no bill will ever get out of his committee.
Stahl: Then, are you saying he's owned by the tobacco lobby?
Crawford: Uh, owned? I don't know . . . I would certainly say he's controlled by them.
If he's, if he's gonna stand up and say that no tobacco bill will ever pass my committee. Ha! That's pretty clear indication where he's coming from and who's, who's pulling his strings.
Michael Pertschuk (head of the anti-smoking Advocacy Institute): And in every key congressional district Philip Morris hires a particular lobbyist. . . every single key district where they, where there's a key chairman or a key, key member of congress that they need to get. They hire a lobbyist with one purpose, to lobby one member of Congress. . .
. . .
The show's last segment focused on the relationship between Crawford and his new close friend--Michael Pertschuk.
Pertschuk: Now, I didn't know Victor. And I had seen this guy over the years. I mean he was . . . Not only didn't I know who he was, but I didn't like him. I mean, he did this Tai Chi in a way that was sort of uhhh, well, something of a show-off. That's what I thought.
Crawford: I didn't know who he was. And we were sitting around having breakfast after my Tai Chi. I was taking Tai Chi. I still am for 30 years.
Pertschuk: And we introduced ourselves around. And he says, "My name is Victor Crawford. I used to be a tobacco lobbyist and now I've got throat cancer. I guess I've got my just desserts." Just like that.
Stahl: So why is Victor Crawford saying what he's saying?
Pertschuk: Victor really doesn't give a damn. Victor's really thinking about how he can make some use of the rest of his life.
Stahl: [to Crawford] Have you heard from your old colleagues?
Crawford: I have . . . received word back by the grapevine that they, they feel I'm not exactly kosher to bite the hand that fed me. And they have a good point. That's exactly what I'm doing. There's nothing they can do to me. Like I told at, the person that called me. What are you going to do? Give me cancer . . . ? Huh?